"ADD_ikt's Attacker and Defender Tier List"

#PokemonGO: Hello Travellers,I recently put out a spreadsheet of my rankings of the new Pokemon Go Gen 2 update with dodging mechanics and more of a human element to my algorithm. You can read more here: http://ift.tt/2lIjefP received a lot of great feedback and am currently in the process of updating the rankings for prestiging and countering the Big 7. However, I noticed that not everyone in the community is comfortable with looking at spreadsheets and lines and lines of numbers. Sometimes when you want to communicate your findings, a simple image of the top attackers and defenders is best! I've modified the attacker rankings as many had commentted that speed of battle was an important factor for them. I've also conisdered weaknesses for my defender rankings.Also, I usually evaluate the mon's IDEAL moveset (with a few exceptions). This means something lower on a tier list with an ideal moveset can be better than a mon higher on a tier list with a poorer moveset. I've put an alternative moveset for the ones that are legacy.ADD_ikt's ATTACKERS TIER LIST Here's is ADD_ikt's Pokemon Go Tier List for Attackers: http://ift.tt/2lmA3u0, so the one thing I changed here is that I assumed a trainer wouldn't be silly enough to use a Pokemon to face off against a defender in which it would be at a clear disadvantage. (You wouldn't use a Charizard to take down a Blastoise, or a Rhydon versus a Vaporeon).Overall, it uses my modified Weave DPS calculation (with Dodging considerations) and a bonus factor based on the number of "strengths" it has. In general, if you only have one of the ideal movesets, drop the mon down about one tier list. As always, use your own judgement!Note that the Big 7 are still probably the best defenders to put in, but only because of how CP is used to define position in gyms.Anyways, let's dive in to it.GOD TIERHigh CP. Any moveset. He is our overlord.DragoniteDragon Tail - Outrage This mon is just too strong. His base stats are like legendary mons. In addition, his new moveset Dragon Tail, Outrage is super strong with good DPS and STAB. Even if Niantic ever decides to nerf Dragonite, his base stats are so high, it will never be a bad mon. There is no real "bad moveset" on him either. So yes some movesets are better than others, but Dragonite's worst moveset is at worst Tier 1 level.TIER 1New kid on the block. Sith Lord.TyranitarBite - Stone Edge Better CP, better defensive and stamina stats than Dragonite. However, his attack stat is a bit sub par, meaning his damage output is slightly less.Tier 1.5Special moveset mons that inflate their ranking. Must have specific moveset or else they drop a tier or two.BlisseyPound - Hyper Beam I know what you're thinking. "Blissey, Tier 1.5? This list is garbage. This mon attacks so slowly, how could she be a good attacker?" WAIT. LET ME EXPLAIN! Pound - Hyperbeam is super strong and Blissey gets a STAB bonus. You MUST have this moveset to be Tier 1.5. Pound is deadly. I would not use her to attack without Pound as your fast move. She wouldn't make this tier list otherwise. Having good survivability is important. The fact she can tank so much damage and not die will help you take down gyms. Just make sure you don't use her to take down other super tanky mons, or else you may time out. Alternative Possibility: Pound + DG/Psychic ~Tier 3.5-4MachampCounter - Dynamic Punch Fighting moves in general have been buffed immensely, making this guy a beast. He packs a huge punch when battling and is one of the few mons to take down Blissey's and Snorlax. Counter - Close Combat drops him down half a tier while his other strong movesets drop him to about Tier 3.Tier 2The non over-powered mons, but still amazingly strong.FlareonFire Spin - Overheat Fire moves have also been slightly buffed. Especially Fire Spin. Generally Fire mons have high base attack stat, so it makes them strong attackers. It also has a wide array of types it is super effective against. Although this mon is a bit weak on the Stamina side, it will likely take down the intended target extremely fast.SnorlaxLick - Hyper Beam Alright, so this guy fell off the list a bit, but that's only because the new mons and movesets have buffed everything above him. He is still super potent at taking down gyms and the fact that Lick got buffed means he can generate energy (12 EPS) for the almighty Hyper Beam in record time. Don't sleep on him ;) Similar to Blissey, if Snorlax has Lick/BS or ZH/HB, he falls down to Tier 3.5.VaporeonWater Gun - Hydro Pump Water Gun is super strong on offense. She's tanky, too. Not much explanation needed here. She can also take down the Top 7 mons with ease. Heck, you might even want to consider her as Tier 1.5 depending on you area's meta.HeracrossCounter - Close Combat Doubt I will ever catch one of these buggers, but the fact that he's a fighting mon makes him a strong force. Fairly tanky for a bug and is another mon you can consider when trying to take down the fat duos.ExeggutorExtrasensory - Solar Beam Similar to Vaporeon, I think we all know this guy is quite strong. The new move Extrasensory has made him even better as it generates energy at an alarming rate so that you can release that ever devestating Solar Beam on those pesky Vapes.TIER 3The Gen 1 mons who used to be Tier 2 and some glass cannons.CharizardFire Spin - Overheat One of my favourite mons. In PoGo, you can consider him a slightly worse version of Flareon. (See Flareon explanation above to learn more about Fire.) Overheat is just too good, I think the way to nerf this move is to align with the real games and have recoil damage.GengarShadow Claw - Shadow Ball Best attack power in the game, imo. This guy has crazy good Weave DPS, but he's also weak and has low survivability. He probably won't be able to tank enough damage to unleash his full attack power. Alternative Moveset: Sucker Punch/Hex + Shadow Ball (Drop down to Tier 4)GolemRock Throw - Stone Edge Rocks are suprisingly strong. If you find a good matchup for this guy, he will take you down. Unfortunately, he's also super weak to a bunch of things, so his survivability isn't great either.GyaradosDragon Tail - Hydro Pump If it wasn't for his high CP, I honestly don't think he's that strong. He doesn't have a quick move with STAB, which hampers his ability to take down defenders. Overrated mon.EspeonConfusion - Futuresight Like other Eeveelutions, this mon is the best Psychic attacker. She also looks super slick. Unfortunately, she doesn't have a great fast move, and it's slowness will cause trainers to have difficulty in dodging defenders.VenusaurVine Whip - Solar Beam For a brief 3 days, Razor Leaf was on top, but after they reverted fast moves. Vine Whip is now an amazing move with high DPS and relatively high EPS again. Unforunately, this mon's base attack stat is <200.AlakazamPsycho Cut - Futuresight Another glass cannon. If you dodge well, I'd assume if you are pro-dodger, you can use him more often. Futuresight is also just a super dope psychic move.ArcacnineFire Fang - Flamethrower Unfortunately, can't learn Overheat, but the old Flamethrower makes Arcanine still a great attacker. Fireblast works just as well on this guy, if you don't have the legacy moveset.Tier 3.5Special Attackers.MukPoison Jab - Gunk Shot Gunk Shot buff. Best pure poison mon for sure. Poison jab has a low cooldown, too.JolteonThunder Shock - Thunderbolt Strongest Electric mon in the game. Another one of those Eeveelutions. Can also take down a wide variety of mons.TyphylosionEmber - Overheat Fire. Strong. /u/BootsNo7 favourite mon.RhydonMud Slap - Stone Edge Despite him having so much CP, this guy has a lot of weaknesses. If only he could learn Rock Throw, but I guess his arms are non existent.Tier 4Poor man mons.OmastarRock Throw - Hydro Pump Poor man's Vaporeon.PinsirBug Bite - X-Scissor Poor man's Heracross.DonphanCounter - Earthquake Poor man's Rhydon.FeraligatrWater Gun - Hydro Pump Wait, there's no vowel between 't' and 'r'? MIND BLOWN.ScizorFury Cutter - X-Scissor The reason why I made a Tier 4. Probably the coolest looking mon in Gen1/Gen2. Also, he's good at taking down Exeggutors. So that's a plus.Honorable Mentions Some fighting, some ice, a pinch of BEAR BEATS BATTLESTAR GALACTICA.Poliwrath - Bubble - Dynamic Punch; Ursaring - Metal Claw - Hyper Beam; Jynx - Confusion - Avalanche; Cloyster - Frost Breath - Avalanche; Lapras - Water Gun - Blizzard.Notable exceptions:Tangela, Vileplume, Victreebell, Meganium aren't here only because Grass Pokemon generally don't have great Attack stats. They just didn't make the cut.Tentacruel didn't make it just because of so many new mons and movesets.ADD_ikt's DEFENDERS TIER LIST Here's is ADD_ikt's Pokemon Go Tier List for Defenders: http://ift.tt/2lIe4QJ, the trend I noticed is that the mon's fast move is actually really important in determining whether it's a good defender or not (since I've assumed that the average trainer usually only dodges charge moves). A high cooldown fast move is ideal here due to how the Gym Defender AI works.Even if you don't have the suggested ideal moveset here, as long as you have the ideal fast move, the mon would only drop about a tier.I've factored in the mon's possible weaknesses, too. Remember that nearly every Pokemon has a counter, but it's the ones who can still stand strong after being countered that make them a strong defender. Let's go.GOD TierThe Chosen One.BlisseyZen Headbutt - Dazzling Gleam Alright, the amount of HP on this mon is absolutely disgusting. This mon is going to change how gyms work. She will tank an insane amount of damage and only a few mons with certain movesets can take her down (assuming equal levels). Get 9 of your friends to put 10 Blisseys in a gym and this will last a very, very long time. You'd have to battle for at least an hour or two just to take it down. Also, she's a pain in the butt to prestige against. Whoever has a maxed out Blissey with Zen Headbutt, consider yourself in heaven.Tier 1The best defenders out there that aren't named Blissey.SnorlaxZen Headbutt - Body Slam I think it's safe to assume that we all know Snorlax was king before Gen 2 arrived. He's tanky, has good defender DPS, and is the slightly more balanced version of Blissey. If you don't have the Legacy moveset suggested, ZH/HS or ZH/HB is alright, too, but would drop him to Tier 2.DragoniteDragon Tail - Outrage Another one of those controversial picks. I understand that he has a double weakness to ICE and therefore can be taken down easily. HOWEVER, his new move called Dragon Tail is really strong. Dragon Breath unfortunately won't do much damage based on the Defender AI. His base stats are still really strong and can tank a lot more damage than expected! Drop to Tier 2, if you have Hurricane or Hyperbeam, due to high energy cost and/or no STAB.Tier 2The strong ones, but can be countered.RhydonMud Slap - Stone Edge Another double weakness mon I know, but as I look through my list, it feels like every mon has a counter to it. Rhydon is actually fairly tanky, with both its defense and stamina stat at 200+. Stone Edge also has a fairly low cooldown when it comes to charge moves making it somewhat harder to dodge. For example, using Pokebattler a Lvl 20 Vaporeon can't beat a Level 30 Rhydon, but a Lvl 20 Scizor can beat a Level 30 Exeggutor. Both attackers had a double advantage, but Rhydon held it's ground.TyranitarIron Tail - Crunch Similar to Rhydon, with a fair handful of weaknesses. However, his ideal moveset Iron Tail, Crunch can be tricky to deal with due to its typing. The fact that Crunch is also 3-bar makes it a good charge move, imo.EspeonConfusion - Futuresight Generally speaking Psychic mons are not supposed to be good defenders due to their weak defense and stamina. Espeon is the rule to the exception. Despite being a pure Psychic mon it has relatively high defense and an okay stamina stat. Confusion also has generates a lot of energy at a time and packs a fair punch.ExeggutorConfusion - Seed Bomb A known great defender and is only really weak to Bug type. Bug types are usually weak anyways (the good ones are hard to find), so Exeggutor can be hard to take down. Seed Bomb is a 3-bar move while doing respectable damage with a very low cooldown window. This move is one of the harder ones to dodge in the game as well. Anything with Confusion will do as well. Alternative moveset: Extrasensory - Seed Bomb; (Move down to Tier 3)JolteonVolt Switch - Thunderbolt There's this new move called Volt Switch, and even though I haven't seen it in action, this is the slowest fast move, making it great for Defender AI! It generates 25 NRG per attack, meaning before you know it, Jolteon will be able to Thunderbolt you down.Tier 3Not the best, but they'll do for decent defenders.AmpharosVolt Switch - Zap Cannon Similar to Jolteon, but slightly worse because this mon doesn't have a great defender charge moveset (all 1-bar).SteelixIron Tail - Heavy Slam I've seen this guy in a gym once and he's HUGE. You can think of him like if Tyranitar and Snorlax had a baby who looked like a buff Onix. Iron Tail and Heavy Slam are overall great defender movesets and Steel is pretty strong type, imo.Slowbro(king)Confusion - Psychic If it wasn't for how CP was calculated and used to determine gym placement, he'd be a BEAST. Super annoying to take down due to Confusion and Psychic. Remember Psychic mons are supposed to be weak, but this guy is buff. If Niantic ever reworks how CP is calculated, his defender value will rise.LaprasIce Shard - Ice Beam Oh how the mighty have fallen. Lapras has always been an alright defender, but again low CP, so you will rarely find her in a gym these days. Nevertheless, the best Ice defender! Only, if you could learn Avalanche. How can Lapras not learn Avalanche!??! Alternative moveset: Frost Breath - Ice Beam (Move Down to Tier 4)AlakazamConfusion - Futuresight This guy is sitting on the borderline of the tier list. He's a bit fragile, but he DOES pack a punch. Confusion is one of the best defender fast moves as it generates a lot of energy and based on anecdotal evidence is somewhat hard to dodge. The new move Futuresight helps, too!Tier 4Meh defenders. All show, little substance. Offensive guru, defensive padawan.GyaradosDragon Tail - Outrage This mon is so overrated. He has double weakness to Electric, and Electric mons generally have higher base ATT stat. He's only considered a Big 7 due to his inflated CP stat. He's better on offense. He does have a decent defender moveset though, but unfortunately doesn't get STAB bonus. Looks like a dragon, can learn dragon moves, but just isn't a dragon. #FakeADragonFlareonFire Spin - Flamethrower Theoretically, this mon should be beast. However, a bucket of water can take her out with ease. Again better on offense due to good base stats, though.JynxConfusion - Avalanche Surprised to see Jynx here, but looking at her base stats, she's alright, due to her tanky Psychic characterstic, but falls short of being any higher on the tier list. Avalanche is what buffs her. This move is pretty great.GolemMud Slap - Stone Edge Poor man's Rhydon. Better on offense, worse on defense.HeracrossStruggle Bug - Close Combat Bugs are generally easy to squash, but this guy knows how to fight. Due to the recent fighting buff, this guy barely makes the cut to Tier 4, but we'll keep him here, cause I'm biased and he looks cool.Honorable Mentions The outcasts.Hypno - Confusion - Futuresight; Machamp - Fighting - Dynamic Punch; Porygon2 - Hidden Power - Hyperbeam; Cloyster - Ice Shard - Avalanche; Forretress - Struggle Bug - Heavy Slam; Poliwrath - Bubble - Dynamic Punch.Notable exceptions:Vaporeon is not on my defender tier list because I don't believe Water Gun is a good defender move, despite being one of the tankier mons out there. It generates energy too slowly now.Venusaur is not on my defender list as it just missed the cut for honorable mentions. There are just a lot of new mons and movesets, so someone had to jump ship. Best Grass Defender though.There you have it. ADD_ikt's Attacker and Defender List. I expect this list to be valid for the next 3 days before the meta changes on us once again. But it was fun to make while it lasted!Special thanks to /u/BootsNo7 for helping me with the awesome graphics. Pokemon sprites courtesy of: http://ift.tt/2lXf0Sj Pokeball images courtesy of: http://ift.tt/2lmBGHX my original post on ranking list, check out here: http://ift.tt/2lKrOcp: Getting a lot of backlash thinking Vaporeon is still one of the best defenders. I looked at Pokebattler's ranking, too and he ranks Vaporeon at number 33. Didn't even make the Top 30. http://ift.tt/2l0HoTN These lists aren't meant to be gospel, or I hope not. It's really a matter of theory crafting. You can always manually raise or decrease the ranking of a Pokemon based on your dodging ability or personal experience. Just trying to help out my fellow travellers with some extra insight :)!If you disagree with the ranking lists for Gen2 from either this post or my previous post, I'd encourage you to try and run your own simulations and derive your own formulas and share your results with the community via /r/TheSilphRoad http://ift.tt/2lXj3y5